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Home > Chicago Burlington & Quincy > Locomotives > EMD E8A > CBQ 9976
Pictures of CBQ 9976
 
Owner: Chicago Burlington & Quincy
Model:EMD E8ABuilt As:CBQ 9976 (E8A)
Serial Number:18318Order No:2059
Frame Number:2059-A7Built:9/1953
Notes:blt 9/1953 to BN 9976, 9908
Other locos with this serial:  MARC 92(E9AM) CBQ 9976(E8A) BN 9908(E9AM) BN 9976(E9AM)
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CB&Q Depot in 1964
Title:  CB&Q Depot in 1964
Description:  Metra has totally redone this scene.
Photo Date:  4/29/1964  Upload Date: 7/6/2007 9:39:34 PM
Location:  Lisle, IL
Author:  Marty#Bernard
Categories:  Station
Locomotives:  CBQ 9976(E8A)
Views:  1448   Comments: 1
CB&Q E8 9976
Title:  CB&Q E8 9976
Description:  Chicago Burlington & Quincy Railroad E8 9976 westbound on Track #1 at Milepost 27, just east of Naperville, Illinois on April 28, 1965, Ektachrome by Chuck Zeiler. Not obvious is that there are three trains in this photo. Immediately behind this train is another westbound Dinky (CB&Q term for suburban or commuter train), and way in the background is an eastbound Dinky just passing under the signal bridge. In the lower right of the frame is a water tower and smokestack of Saint Procopius Academy (my high school), today known as Benet Academy.

This locomotive had a reputation among the CB&Q engineers, according to former Q engineer Karl Rethwisch, who commented on a photo of this locomotive that I posted earlier. Karl states that the 9976 was known as the 'Pelican' (a name bestowed upon it by an Engineer named Alex Fox), and possessed a few undesirable characteristics. One such characteristic was a tendency to syncronize its two prime movers. The Q's E-units were tuned such that transition would happen at different times for the two prime movers, so that there was little or no noticable lurch as transition occurred. Apparently the Pelican took exception to this, and after a few stops, would adjust itself so both prime movers would transition at the same time. Another quirk of the Pelican was the lack of responsive engine brakes, useful in maintaining demanding suburban start and stop schedules. Here is the explanation from Karl:

In freight service the engine brake (independent brake / driver brakes) are kept 'bailed off' when using the automatic (train) brakes until immediately prior to coming to a full stop. In stretch braking mode the engine is allowed to pull on the train just a little to help prevent a run-in of slack. In mainline passenger service the engine brake is allowed to apply with the second brake pipe reduction. Around 20 mph, the automatic air is graduated off slightly. The application then in effect is maintained until a complete stop is made. In suburban service the engine brake is allowed to apply with the train brakes and held in that manner until the stop is complete. Since suburban operations are so much more demanding than mainline passenger service the engine brake is calculated into the overall stopping distance since it often represents a very high percentage of the total braking capability of the train. In the case of 9976 it's a ??????????, where's your brakes??? This engine displayed very unusual braking characteristics to the degree that I'd call 'er 'unique'. Sometimes the engine brake applied the same as other E units and other times it was as if it had been cut out. To my knowledge the mystery was never solved. All I DO know is that if the Pelican was your engine for the day you were in for an unpleasant trip.

All Q E units had the 24RL brake schedule. While many railroads used this brake valve few, if any, had the dual service mode built into it. In mainline passenger service the brake valve was configured to operate in the 'conventional' manner meaning the normal automatic (AU) brake valve operation. In suburban service, however, the brake valve was configured to operate in the 'Straight Air' mode. When in SA (straight air) operation the brake valve caused air pressure to be applied to a signal line running through the entire train (suburban train). The build-up of pressure in the signal line resulted in the operation of the control valve on each car, to cause reservoir air to be directed to the brake cylinders. The further the brake valve handle was advanced the greater the resulting brake cylinder pressure. The engine brake also responded to the movement of the 24RL brake valve handle (except on the 9976) and slowed or stopped the train. What all this means is that ALL suburban cars were equipped with two separate brake systems, automatic (the George Westinghouse thing) and straight air, the method George worked so hard to eliminat
Photo Date:  4/28/1965  Upload Date: 12/3/2009 1:29:36 PM
Location:  Naperville, IL
Author:  Chuck Zeiler
Categories:  Roster
Locomotives:  CBQ 9976(E8A)
Views:  1640   Comments: 1
CB&Q E8 9976
Title:  CB&Q E8 9976
Description:  Chicago Burlington & Quincy Railroad E8 9976 westbound at Naperville, Illinois on June 7, 1965, Kodachrome by Chuck Zeiler. This locomotive was built in September 1953 (c/n 18318) on EMD Order 2059A for eight E8's (#'s 9970-9977), became BN 9976 sometime after the March 2, 1970 merger. It was sold to the West Suburban Mass Transit District on April 1, 1977, and was rebuilt by Morrison Knudsen in Boise, Idaho, swapping out it's twin 12-cylinder Model 567B prime movers for 645E's and changing out it's twin steam generators for Detroit Diesel powered HEP units. It appears this unit went on to a brief career as MARC 68, and now resides at the Illinois Railway Museum, Union, Illinois. In the background is Train #11, the Nebraska Zephyr. Assuming everyone is on time, 9976 is on Train #109, due in Naperville at 11:32AM, #11 is due at Aurora at 11:37AM.
Photo Date:  6/7/1965  Upload Date: 3/6/2009 10:49:40 AM
Location:  Naperville, IL
Author:  Chuck Zeiler
Categories:  Roster
Locomotives:  CBQ 9976(E8A)
Views:  2321   Comments: 2
CB&Q E8 9976
Title:  CB&Q E8 9976
Description:  Chicago Burlington & Quincy Railroad E8 9976 at Aurora, Illinois on July 10, 1965, Kodachrome by Chuck Zeiler. Built in September 1953 (c/n 18318) on EMD Order 2059A, it became BN 9976 and was later rebuilt and renumbered to BN 9908. It is seen here on the Aurora Depot turntable. The CB&Q had just received the first of its Budd push-pull cab control gallery cars a month earlier, a total of six cars, but not all had arrived yet. Some trains still needed their locomotives turned. Upon arrival at Aurora, the power was cut off and switched to the turntable, located behind the depot. This locomotive had just backed onto the turntable and will be rotated 180 degrees and coupled back onto the train for the return trip to Chicago.

Below is a comment from Karl Rethwisch, and it peaked my curiosity, so I e-mail back to inquire about the meaning of the comment, and he responded:

I was reviewing some Q stuff on rrpicurerchives.net, and came across your shot of the 'Pelican' (AKA 9976) on the turntable at Aurora Depot. I used the TT many times, along with the Cab Signal Test Loop.

I e-mailed back, inquiring about the terms 'Pelican' and 'Cab Signal Test Loop', and here is that response:

'Pelican', that term was coined by a suburban Engineer named Alex Fox. It was soon adopted by every other Engineer. The 9976 had EVERY undesirable quality one could imagine all wrapped up in one good lookin' E unit.

Brakes. She didn't HAVE any !! Dinkys relied HEAVILY on the engine brake to be able to do all the crazy stuff we HAD to do to stay on time.

Transition. This is the electrical equivalent of 'shifting gears'. The two power plants were adjusted to slightly different values to allow one power plant to 'transition', series to parallel, before the other did likewise to provide lurch-free acceleration. The '76, after two or three stops would, somehow, manage to synchronize BOTH power plants to produce the exact opposite of lurch-free acceleration. All-in-all, she was the antithesis of one's expectations of EMD locomotives.

The Cab Signal Test Loop. Before a locomotive equipped with ACS (Automatic Cab Signal) was qualified to operate in ACS territory and rely on cab signal indications, the ACS system had to be tested prior to departure. After cutting away from the train in the Aurora Depot the original test was no longer considered valid and an operational test was required before departing Aurora. A push button at the west end of the table activated the loop and provided evidence of a functioning signal system.

I believe I may also have mentioned the 9988B. She was the ONLY Q E unit capable of attaining 100 mph from a start at Naperville to passing under the 'J' (EJ&E) bridge east of Eola with a two car train. Now remember, I only HEARD that she could do that. Also she still exists in Florida as the, I believe, 9913 (the old BN number).
Photo Date:  7/10/1965  Upload Date: 4/29/2009 5:05:32 PM
Location:  Aurora, IL
Author:  Chuck Zeiler
Categories:  Roster
Locomotives:  CBQ 9976(E8A)
Views:  1231   Comments: 1
CB&Q E8 9976
Title:  CB&Q E8 9976
Description:  Chicago Burlington & Quincy Railroad E8 9976 eastbound at Eola, Illinois on July 17, 1965, Kodachrome by Chuck Zeiler. Although this unit was not (at this date) equipped with HEP, it was able to power the two cars it pulls as a result of a modification by the CB&Q shops to allow the auxiliary generators of the locomotive to power the lights. The coaches were heated with steam, and the air conditioning was powered by propane Waukesha engines on each coach.
Photo Date:  7/17/1965  Upload Date: 3/6/2009 12:15:49 PM
Location:  Eola, IL
Author:  Chuck Zeiler
Categories:  Roster
Locomotives:  CBQ 9976(E8A)
Views:  1058   Comments: 0
CB&Q E8 9964
Title:  CB&Q E8 9964
Description:  Chicago Burlington & Quincy Railroad E8's 9976 and 9964 westbound at Naperville, Illinois on July 28, 1965, Kodachrome by Chuck Zeiler. The train on the left, headed by E8 9976 is a westbound Dinky braking for the station at Naperville, and the train on the right, headed by E8 9964 is Train #1, the Denver Zephyr, probably doing his allowed speed of 75 mph.
Photo Date:  7/28/1965  Upload Date: 3/5/2009 11:59:18 AM
Location:  Naperville, IL
Author:  Chuck Zeiler
Categories:  Roster
Locomotives:  CBQ 9964(E8A) CBQ 9976(E8A)
Views:  777   Comments: 0
The Pelican.
Title:  The Pelican.
Description:  Final 6 mi. and then home.
Photo Date:  4/1/1970  Upload Date: 12/7/2009 7:49:10 PM
Location:  Eola, IL
Author:  Karl Rethwisch
Categories:  Passenger,Action
Locomotives:  CBQ 9976(E8A)
Views:  869   Comments: 2

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